JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
How many U.S. troops have died in the ongoing Iran war? What should be a cut-and-dry answer has come into question after reporting from The Washington Post revealed the number of fallen service members could be higher than the Pentagon has previously released. To discuss further, we bring in one of the reporters who broke the story for The Washington Post, Pentagon correspondent Tara Copp. Hi there.
TARA COPP: Hi.
SUMMERS: So let's just start with the numbers here. I mean, the Pentagon's public database states that 14 U.S. military casualties occurred, but your sources - they suggest that's too low. NPR has not independently confirmed this but tell us what you're hearing.
COPP: Sure. So those numbers are in the Defense Casualty Analysis System, DCAS. And this system, it's - actually the number's 18. And the whole reason that you said 14 is because there was an effort made by the administration this summer to splice up the numbers in a way so that it looked like Epic Fury. Only 14 service members were killed in hostile action in that conflict. Because then Trump declared that the Epic Fury was over...
SUMMERS: Right.
COPP: ...And that there was a peace agreement, potentially, and then hostilities resumed. And we had three service members killed in Jordan, and then we had another killed in Iraq by detonation of an Iranian drone. So there's your 18.
SUMMERS: OK.
COPP: There are additional service members who have died in the theater during this conflict, based on sources we have spoken to, that are not reflected in the system. There's some discrepancy as to whether that number is 22 or 23. The Pentagon has pushback very hard on this.
SUMMERS: Right.
COPP: But I think that there are a number of lawmakers, at this point, who have called for a deeper look into the numbers and why they're not 22 on the board.
SUMMERS: Right. And I just want to talk about that pushback for a moment. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, on Saturday, in response to a question from One America News, said the Pentagon, quote, "never would and never could hide a combat death." NPR spoke to a Defense Department official who also took issue, saying that the deaths are all there in the database. What do you make of that?
COPP: So his choice of words - combat death - there are a number of different ways that service members can die in theater in a...
SUMMERS: Yeah.
COPP: ...Conflict. And if they are only going to reflect those killed in action, that does not tell the whole story.
SUMMERS: I mean, of course, these casualties - they weigh the most heavily with the families of those deceased service members who, along with acknowledgment of their sacrifice, they have the right to survivors' benefits. Do we have a sense as to whether this will affect those benefits?
COPP: So how a death is reported and recorded has everything to do with what sort of benefits the family gets. The military typically does a line of duty investigation, which determines, you know, what happened to lead to the death, whether the service member was performing their duties at the time, whether it was combat related. All of those things have to be sorted out before the family, you know, knows what type of lifetime benefits...
SUMMERS: Yeah.
COPP: ...They might be getting because of this service member's sacrifice.
SUMMERS: I want to end with a question about the Defense Department more broadly, specifically the fact that, at this point, the Pentagon - it doesn't regularly brief the press or the public as it used to. NPR and many other media outlets have reported about the lack of information flowing to people on the inside, even to Navy families who were evacuated from the Middle East shortly after this war started. And it raises a lot of questions. What don't we know about this war that we would have understood previously? And why does it matter?
COPP: So much of this war is happening in the dark. You have a Pentagon correspondent - you know, the Pentagon press corps - most of us have covered conflict...
SUMMERS: Yeah.
COPP: ...Whether it was in Iraq or Afghanistan. Most of us have traveled with the troops, where you could see firsthand, where you...
SUMMERS: Right.
COPP: ...Could have access and be able to provide context and reason. None of that is happening now. There's not briefings. You saw the Pentagon roll out that the cost of the war may be above 44 billion now, not including a lot of long-term costs, like rebuilding bases. And all of this is being dripped out without context because the Pentagon refuses to answer questions.
SUMMERS: Washington Post Pentagon correspondent Tara Copp. Thank you.
COPP: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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