ELISSA NADWORNY, HOST:
This year, President Trump has been calling on the Justice Department to prosecute his perceived enemies, and the DOJ seems to be following through. It secured indictments against former FBI director Jim Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James in just the last few weeks alone. The White House has been signaling more cases may be on the way, so we wanted to ask our justice correspondent, Carrie Johnson, about the cost of mounting a criminal defense. Hi, Carrie.
CARRIE JOHNSON, BYLINE: Hi there.
NADWORNY: So first off, how much does a good lawyer cost in this situation?
JOHNSON: Lawyers tell me there's no golden rule here, but there are a bunch of factors to consider - what charges a person faces, where they are in the country. Defense lawyers will have to review transcripts, FBI files and get ready to cross-examine witnesses. Lisa Wayne is executive director of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. She's done 150 trials during her career.
LISA WAYNE: Most people have to kind of figure out out of pocket and figure out, do they have a savings? Do they have friends and family that can help them? Do they take mortgages on their homes? It can be a very stressful situation for most individuals.
JOHNSON: I spoke with three other veteran criminal lawyers who said for these kinds of high-profile cases, it could cost a million to $5 million at a small firm, and much more at a big law firm, where some partners charge $2,500 an hour. Those kind of bills could reach $25 million or more.
NADWORNY: Wow. That is a lot of money. Do people facing these kinds of charges have other options?
JOHNSON: Sometimes. The former FBI director, Jim Comey, is being represented by his old friend, a former prosecutor called Patrick Fitzgerald at his old law firm, Skadden. Fitzgerald might have commanded more than $2,000 an hour, but he's retired now, working for himself and can set his own rates or even donate his time.
Then there's California Democratic Senator Adam Schiff. Schiff is a longtime Trump critic who helped investigate President Trump during his first term in office. Now Schiff is under federal investigation. Here's President Trump talking about that recently at the White House.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Looks like Adam Schiff really did a bad thing. They have him. Now let's see what happens.
JOHNSON: The issue here is that Schiff has homes in both California and Maryland, closer to the Senate. Schiff says he accurately filled out the paperwork and consulted with lawyers and mortgage companies. His attorney, Preet Bharara, a prominent former prosecutor in New York, says these allegations are false, stale and long debunked. Even so, Schiff has created a legal defense fund to help pay his bills.
A White House spokeswoman said the DOJ is on the right track. She says the Trump administration will continue to deliver the truth to the American people while restoring integrity and accountability to the justice system.
NADWORNY: Carrie, speaking of justice, who is doing the investigating at the Justice Department right now? And what do we know about their approach?
JOHNSON: The key figure is Ed Martin. He is a lawyer from Missouri who has had more experience in politics than in the courtroom. He could not get confirmed by the Senate to be the U.S. attorney in Washington in part because of his support for the people who rioted at the Capitol in 2021. Instead, he got a different job in charge of the weaponization working group at DOJ. Here's what Martin said as he started that job.
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ED MARTIN: There are some really bad actors, some people that did some really bad things to the American people. And if they can be charged, we'll charge them. But if they can't be charged, we will name them. And in a culture that respects shame, they should be people that are shamed.
JOHNSON: That is not the way the DOJ policy has worked in the past. Prosecutors are not supposed to be bad-mouthing people they can't charge with crimes. But that seems to be the way this DOJ and the White House are approaching Trump's perceived enemies this year.
NADWORNY: So we've been talking about dollars and cents of someone's defense. But what about other costs with being charged with a crime?
JOHNSON: The emotional pressure on people in these situations can be really intense, not just a defendant, but also his or her entire family. They're in the spotlight, sometimes having to sit there and take it while people say terrible things about you. And then, even if someone wins an acquittal, they've really been through the ringer.
Think about D.C. lawyer Michael Sussmann. He was investigated by a special counsel in connection with his work for Hillary Clinton's campaign. A jury in D.C. found him not guilty of making a false statement to the FBI after two weeks of trial. Here he is outside the courthouse after he won in 2022.
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MICHAEL SUSSMANN: Despite being falsely accused, I'm relieved that justice ultimately prevailed in my case. As you can imagine, this has been a difficult year for my family and me. But right now, we are just grateful for the love and support of so many during this ordeal.
JOHNSON: Back in the 1980s, the former labor secretary under President Reagan faced fraud charges, but he was acquitted by a jury. He famously said then, which office do I go to to get my reputation back?
NADWORNY: That was NPR justice correspondent Carrie Johnson. Thanks, Carrie.
JOHNSON: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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